"Class Act" with Ken Newton & Juliet Gunn
What's happening, what should happen, and what you don't want to happen in Elementary, Middle, and High School for the 21st Century Student, Teacher, and Parent. Everything you should know and then some from the people on the "front line". :-).
"Class Act" with Ken Newton & Juliet Gunn
Episode 5- "The Consequence Crisis: Raising a Generation Unprepared for Reality"
What happens when children are raised without consequences? Ken Newton and Juliette Gunn dive deep into one of education's most pressing challenges - the systematic removal of meaningful accountability in schools and how it's creating a generation unprepared for reality.
The conversation takes an unexpected turn when two exemplary sixth-grade students join the podcast to share remarkably mature perspectives on why rules and consequences matter. Their insights reveal what's possible when children understand accountability: "We need consequences at school because if there aren't any, kids won't have any reason not to do something bad." These model students, both children of teachers, demonstrate the powerful connection between home accountability and school success.
Ken reads from his new book "From ABCs to PTSD," highlighting how elementary education has become "the wild west of the educational system, where every poor choice is met not with swift justice, but with gentle redirection." Both educators share their frustrations with policies that prevent teachers from implementing meaningful consequences, noting that children quickly learn to game the system when they realize certain privileges remain untouchable regardless of their choices.
The discussion culminates in a call for partnership between parents and educators. While teachers are tasked with academic instruction, the foundation of accountability must begin at home. As Ken pointedly observes, "We're the teacher, we're not the parent... We're here to teach math and science, not that Johnny should be nice. Johnny should be nice already."
Have you noticed changes in how consequences are handled in schools? Share your thoughts and experiences with us as we continue exploring education's most challenging issues.
Hello, hello, hello, mr Ken Newton, and.
Speaker 2:Juliette Gunn here how are you everybody?
Speaker 1:Episode 5 and today's topic, and we're coming back from spring break. Are we rested? Kind of rested. How about you, juliette?
Speaker 2:Do you feel rested? Because I don't.
Speaker 1:Ugh, I don't Just seven days, that's it. Exactly Back in the day, it was two weeks, but it's only seven days, Only seven days, Only seven days. So hey, welcome friends. We are here to talk about consequences, or I should say the lack of consequences.
Speaker 2:That's perfect. The lack of consequences.
Speaker 1:Lack of consequences in good old education. Is it frustrating? Yes, is it wearing? Yes, is it wearing. And tiresome? Yes, what do you think?
Speaker 2:I just don't know where to begin Because, honestly, in this education system we're lacking so much. But the biggest thing is consequences Teaching these students that life is full of consequences, good and bad.
Speaker 1:I couldn't agree more. And like you said, life is full of consequences, but unfortunately it's honey. Don't do that for the 33rd time, let's try again, let's try again. Here's a sucker, a sticker. Let's try again.
Speaker 2:You know what's my favorite? I love that you express those emotions. I loved it. No, exactly, that's not how we express our emotions.
Speaker 1:And when, in the perfect world again, the legal system and God bless your father, he would have laughed at no, you don't get a 33rd chance, you go straight to jail.
Speaker 2:Yep, you get one chance in this world.
Speaker 1:You get one chance in this world and you get one chance. So after the next break we're going to go into a little more detail about all this good stuff. So we'll catch you on the flip side.
Speaker 3:Y'all ready for this?
Speaker 1:This is perfect flip side. Y'all ready for this? All right, friends? Hey, welcome back to our episode about consequences. And, ironically, friends, we have two students who are going to be our guest stars. But how ironic that they're the complete opposite of what we're talking about. And they understand that they're rules and they understand that they're consequences. But, funny story, both their parents are teachers. But that's okay, that's okay. That's okay, that's okay Because they are great examples of really model citizens and I've always told them I was very lucky, miss Juliet, to have them in my class last year, and I cried when they found out that they weren't in my class this year. Um, hopefully they did too, but that's okay, I'm just being silly, um, but um, I'll let them introduce themselves and just just a couple words, like why do you think we need to have rules and consequences at school? So don't be shy, come forward.
Speaker 4:I think we need to have rules and consequences at school, so don't be shy, come forward I think we need to have consequences at school because it keeps us in line and if kids don't be disciplined, they'll be out of control and it just will be horrible yeah.
Speaker 3:So I think that we need to have consequences at school, because if there aren't consequences, then kids aren't gonna have any reason not to do something that's bad, and the consequences teach them to do what's right and then they know like bad from wrong and good from wrong.
Speaker 2:Can I just say that's perfect again where are their parents? Because, they need to have an award or something.
Speaker 1:Absolutely. And again, that's funny that you say that, because I think at the end of the year there will be a I call it a good problem on figuring out who wins all the sixth grade awards. And quite honestly, I think it's the two people standing in front of us that should win all the sixth grade awards. Why? Because they've been excellent examples for everybody. Your parents will be very proud of you, so we'll send you the link so they can hear it.
Speaker 2:Wait, wait, wait. Could we ask them what kind of consequences?
Speaker 1:do they get? Oh, please, that's a great question, that's a fabulous question.
Speaker 2:So if you guys don't do good at school, complete your homework or anything like that, what happens?
Speaker 4:I get all my technology taken away. Like, if I get bad grades, then my mom will like sit me down and we'll just go over everything that I didn't understand can we be nosy and ask you a question?
Speaker 1:have you ever gotten your technology taken away? Yeah, what?
Speaker 3:what did you do, what?
Speaker 4:When I was younger, I would lie a lot.
Speaker 1:Oh, but we still love Ellie, we do, we do, well, good thing you don't lie.
Speaker 2:No more right Because we're six years. We still love Ellie.
Speaker 1:We still love. Don't break that conception of Ellie.
Speaker 3:No, we love Ellie. She always tells the truth.
Speaker 1:What about you, Mr Wollner?
Speaker 3:Okay, Don't do homework. My mom always asks me did you do your homework? Did you do your homework? So I never really forget, and then it just kind of sticks, so it's easy to do it. And then if I get bad grades then normally, like Ellie said, we'll just go over it and make sure that the next time I get a better grade.
Speaker 1:Oh, we still love grants.
Speaker 3:I love that. Oh, honesty, honesty is still love.
Speaker 1:Grant.
Speaker 2:I love that. Oh, honesty, grant, you're perfect.
Speaker 1:Thank you, honesty is the best policy. I love it. Hey, let's ask you one more question, and Julia kind of asked you that already Do you really think it's important to have consequences at the elementary level? And the reason why we're asking is what's going to happen when you all become adults? Do you understand the question? Yes, so why do you think we should have rules now? Because if we don't have rules when you're adults, society is going to be kind of in trouble. Yeah, so what? What are your thoughts on that?
Speaker 4:um, my thoughts are we need rules in elementary school because it what we practice in elementary school, is what what is going to translate to upper grades and, eventually, life overall. And so if we don't practice good habits in elementary school, it's harder to practice them older. It's kind of like learning a language it's easier to do it younger than it is to do older so wise stop it, you're making my heart explode.
Speaker 2:This is perfect this is what we need. We need more students like you, because, guess what, when you go into adulthood, it's just going to get harder. But you guys seem to have the best foundation right now to even be successful later on. How about about you, grant?
Speaker 3:Okay, so I think that it's good to have rules, like when you're at elementary, because you're still learning, and when, like for a test example. If you don't do homework and you don't practice, you're not just going to suddenly know what to do. You have to train. And then how you act in elementary school when you're younger is how you're gonna act your whole life oh, so wise we should like it's just clone them why can't we have 50 000, if they're?
Speaker 1:cloning goats and animals. Why can't we clone like amazingly awesome people here I? Want you guys, you have to, you have to fail sixth grade again because to be at the school for the next.
Speaker 2:Do you have to graduate?
Speaker 1:Yeah, do you have to.
Speaker 2:Do you really have to? I don't know. I think we should just keep you forever. Exactly, I agree 100%. Other students, though. What are we going to do with them? Where do we start? We have to figure this out.
Speaker 1:Exactly, let them graduate early. What was that?
Speaker 4:Let them graduate early. Let him graduate early.
Speaker 1:Well, I don't know, Thank you for the suggestion, babe, but we'll let you go.
Speaker 3:Thank you, words of wisdom, loved it so much, so proud of you too, Words of wisdom.
Speaker 1:And in our last segment we'll talk about maybe possible solutions or ideas that Miss Juliet and I have about really having consequences at the next level. All right friends. Hey, we are back for our final segment and Miss Juliet and I have put our heads together to solve the world's issues and problems. Just kidding Like we can only do so much, hey maybe one day, one day.
Speaker 1:One day, exactly One day. But we both agree that really something has to change, especially at the elementary level, because, like in the last segment we were talking about that, if children don't get consequences now, what in the world's gonna happen as they get older?
Speaker 2:and they're gonna have a difficult time growing up an extremely difficult time, and consequences get bigger consequences get.
Speaker 1:We'll make up a word huger and bigger. And yeah, you brought up some good points. You brought up some very good points about how, again, if there's nothing sticks, nothing sticks. Now, ironically, I, mr newton here, I I'm right, I wrote a new book about from abcs to ptsd and, ironically, one of those chapters.
Speaker 2:I love the title.
Speaker 1:Oh, don't you love it. One of those chapters is about consequences, lack of consequences, and I just want to read a quick little snippet of it. And it says ah, elementary school, the age of glue sticks, untied shoelaces and an unwavering belief that consequences are just a myth. Adults made up to scare kids into putting the crayons away. It is the wild west of the educational system, where every poor choice is met not with swift justice, but with the gentle let's use our words next time, buddy, and make better choices.
Speaker 2:I said that earlier remember.
Speaker 1:Isn't that the truth? So, and kids are smart. We were talking about that that kids figure out the system.
Speaker 2:I just want to share something, please. When I was your student, mr newton, yes, friends, miss juliet was my student crazy years ago, but when I was your student, I remember if I didn't listen to you or I didn't complete something, you held me in at recess until I finished it, and that wasn wasn't often, by the way, and the word is accountable, exactly.
Speaker 1:Oh, I love how she threw in and it's true, friends. It was not Like I could count on one hand yeah, not my toes, but it was right. And the key word there is accountable. We cannot hold kids accountable anymore. Our hands are tied very tight quite honestly, they don't.
Speaker 2:We can't hold them in from recess.
Speaker 1:We can't hold them in from recess. So what do they?
Speaker 2:learn. They've learned that, no matter what I do, I still get my playtime.
Speaker 1:Absolutely. Kids have learned the system. People, kids have learned the system and, like Miss Juliet said, I still get my playtime and neener, neener, you can't do anything.
Speaker 2:Yep. And what does that teach? If there's a lack of consequence, there's a lack of accountability, then that also goes into behavior. Absolutely. Behavior increases, it manifests itself.
Speaker 1:Fancy way, friends, it manifests itself into something pretty scary, and again we just want to be teachers. Boy, has our job changed. That's another episode how our job has radically changed. And yeah, long story short, no consequences, friends.
Speaker 2:Wait, can we also say one more thing? We are not the only ones that should be giving your child a consequence, absolutely. It's not only our job.
Speaker 1:Absolutely and sorry, friends, we're the teacher, we're not the parent, we're the teacher, we're here to teach math, science. We're trying to teach the good, old-fashioned eating writing and arithmetic.
Speaker 2:Not that, Johnny should be nice.
Speaker 1:Exactly, johnny should be nice already. Mm-hmm. Johnny should be nice. Exactly, johnny should be nice already. Mm-hmm. Johnny should be nice already. And we have to be teaching why Johnny should be nice.
Speaker 2:Or why Johnny should practice his math facts.
Speaker 1:Exactly so. We're going to keep doing our best because call us crazy but we still love our job and we still will try to change the world. And tomorrow's another day and we're laughing, but as soon as we pause, we'll start crying.
Speaker 2:I'm already starting. I have to think about tomorrow, Alright friends, yes, happy Tuesday.
Speaker 1:Keep listening. Thanks for listening.
Speaker 2:Peace out. Happy Tuesday guys.
Speaker 1:Happy Tuesday.